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About "Always take never give"

Whether the instances from the YMCA settlement worker are true or not, I generally agree with the view that as a group we should step up our donation efforts, especially to organized courses. Last year, when filling a Unite Way donation form, I learnt I had the choice to designate the charity that will receive my fund. Since I perfer to give back to the Chinese community, and I don't know the charity number of any organizations that serves the Chinese community, I ask the quesition on Rolia. Guess what, not as many experts on this as on Digital camera, GPS, pocket PC, buying a house... In fact, I didn't get any response. That tells you something.

The other thing I noticed is that we tend to be more willing to give to unfortunate individuals rather than an organization that can help a lot of people. This may have something to do with the environment we grew up in.
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下茶话 / 社会 / 写了很多抗议信,第一次收到了回信,还是很满意的。回信来自KW-YMCA,信中严正申明了YMCA收集捐赠的立场,并保证不再发出类似信件。我看那个Yoke应该受到了批评。:)
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Dear Pyramid,

    Thank you for your response to regarding Yoke Kennedy's Letter.
    The K-W YMCA fully understands the inappropriateness of Yoke's words. Please
    be assured that our Association does not condone the tone nor the content of
    the email.
    The K-W YMCA's Cross-Cultural and Community Services division has been a
    leader in providing newcomers with the emotional, spiritual and physical
    support needed to adapt, contribute and prosper in the K-W community for
    over 15 years. There has never been any expectation of a donation in return
    for our services. Although we do conduct an annual giving campaign each year
    to help raise money for children to access Y programming, we wish people to
    give willingly and only if they are in the position to do so. In February of
    this year, letters requesting a donation were mailed to recent users of our
    Immigrant Settlement Services and we greatly appreciated all of the help we
    received. We, however, do not expect a donation nor do we wish to "harass"
    anyone into giving to our Association.
    The Letter went out without the knowledge of any other Y staff and certainly
    does not reflect our values or our methods of soliciting donations. We thank
    you for responding to this unfortunate situation and assure you that such a
    solicitation will not be sent out in the future. The K-W YMCA's vision is to
    be a valued community leader in making a positive difference in the lives of
    children, adults and families by expanding services and building
    partnerships. We fully recognize that correspondence such as the one you
    received do not further this vision.
    Thank you,
    Louise Jessup


    Louise Jessup
    Communications Supervisor, K-W YMCA
    Telephone: (519) 584-7479 x 207
    Fax: (519) 571-1721
    Email: ljessup@kwymca.org
    The K-W YMCA Builds Strong Kids, Strong Families, Strong Communities

    =================================================

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Pyramid
    Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 6:05 PM
    To: ljessup@kwymca.org; malvarez@kwymca-cccs.org
    Subject: Settlement Counselor Yoke Kennedy

    Dear Ms Alvarez,

    I was surprised by the letter created by Yoke Kennedy which is full of race
    discrimnation and narrow minded ideas and that letter really hurts many
    Chinese Canadians.

    Although I never have the chances to enjoy the great settlement services
    provided by the government of Canada like LINC, ESL and even YMCA, I also
    never hesitate when the chances raise for donations. As one of stingy
    Chinese of what Yoke Kennedy said who never speak Cantonese but only English
    and Mandarin from mainland China, I donated my GST tax return to the
    government two times since I landed in this new country in 2001. Forthemore,
    I and lot of my friends helped a cancer patient in Toronto in the past and
    we really happy when we help others.

    Donations should be collected by the consent of the person who contribute.
    YMCA and many government services are free because tax payer already paid
    most of the part I believe, and many new immigrants from China have no job
    and their economy condition is not very good, and I think it is normal for
    new comers and that why YMCA is standing there for help. Why Ms. Yoke
    Kennedy ask them to donate so desperately when most of them have no capacity
    for a donation cheque?

    I am stunned by the attitude Ms. Yoke Kennedy to our Chinese new comers.
    They came to YMCA for asking help, and Ms. Kennedy was asking them to
    donate. If they are so capable to donate, why should they bother to ask help
    there? Maybe Ms. Kennedy has the right to ask, but the person she asked also
    has the right to refuse, anyway she is not a begger! If she think it is so
    hard to get money from the people visited YMCA, why don't she directly open
    an attorney office and the customers will pay her in that case.

    As a goverment worker especially in YMCA, be open minded and fair to
    everyone not judge a person by his/her race and origin, I believe this is
    the basic requirment. From her letter I believe she is unqualified for this
    job and it is a shame for WK YMCA.

    Sincerely yours,


    Pyramid

    TEL: 1-416-xxxxxxx
    Mailto:xxxxxxx@hotmail.com
    xxx-xxxxxx Ave., Apt. xxx
    Mississauga,Ontario, Postcode, Canada


    ========================================================

    Attached: Letter from Yoke Kennedy

    It has been almost three years since I am a settlement worker with the
    KW-YMCA. No words can express the level of satisfaction I get from helping
    my clients, 80% of whom are of Chinese origin. Working with you all has also
    helped me get in touch with my Chinese roots. However, there is one part of
    my Chinese origin that causes me great embarrassment--take and no give,
    unless you are a family member.

    KW-YMCA is funded by Citizenship and Immigration Canada, but some of the
    goods and services come from donations--like subsidies for camp, trial
    memberships for 3 months' use of the recreation facilities ($120 each),
    English lessons, toys, funeral expenses for clients, etc. Many of the staff
    here, including myself, work more than full-time hours but we do not get
    paid full-time. There is not enough money to go around.

    In the last year I have heard some embarrassing stories about the Chinese
    newcomers in KW. The manager of a social service agency said that at each of
    his workshops, participants would be given generous donations of gift
    certificates for food and clothes. At the end of the workshop sessions, all
    participants would be invited to help themselves to free brand-new clothes
    for their kids. Some people would rush forward to grab two or three sets of
    clothes leaving those behind with nothing. These people were assured that
    there would be more clothes to give away the following week and to take one
    set only. The story did not get any better the following week. The same
    people appeared and behaved in exactly the same way. This manager approached
    me for an explanation after the workers in Cambridge, Kitchener and Waterloo
    told the same story over and over again. "These people" are "the Chinese".

    I have also heard from the car salesperson, the insurance agents, the real
    estate brokers that the Chinese are the most difficult customers to close a
    deal. The Chinese expect a whole lot of service for free. Service requires
    time, and time is money. Why do real estate brokers usually require chinese
    home-buyers to sign a contract? A Chinese man would very likely have an
    agent show him 50 houses and then when they together found the perfect
    house, the Chinese would make a secret deal with the seller so as to help
    the seller (who is now his best friend) avoid paying a commission to the
    agent. Guess who benefits the most here.

    Another agent asks his Chinese customers at the first meeting to choose
    between service and price. For the lowest price go straight to Company ABC,
    for the best service come to me, but don't expect the lowest price. Before
    long, the person who went to ABC and eventually got cheated and got no
    service at all will come to me to get his money back. Then when I stick out
    my hand to ask for a donation to the Y, he said to wait till he has paid off
    the mortgage.

    One Chinese woman received no lessons at all from her driving school after
    paying $400. I helped her get back her $400 plus $300 of compensation for
    the loss of her time and energy. I sent her a letter for a donation to the
    Y. She said she never received it. I sent her another letter. She said her
    son took care of all her mail. I too lost time and energy on this case
    because this was not really settlement work. I had to do it at my own time
    just because this woman had a language problem and is new in KW.

    Job search is the biggest challenge for my Chinese clients. As a settlement
    worker rather than an employment worker, I can't afford to spend a whole lot
    of time helping with job-search. But when I see that a newcomer is about to
    give up, I will some how find more time to help this newcomer in the
    job-search, with the request that a small donation be made to the Y upon
    getting the first paycheque. So far, I have received one donation of $10 and
    another donation of $20. Where are all other tens and hundreds of people who
    have got jobs with my help?

    My friend offered me two bicycles for $60. I did not need them. She then
    said she was going to give it to the thrift store. I asked if she would like
    my help to sell them to my clients. Her reply: I would rather give the bikes
    to the thrift store so the workers can get a decent pay. The Chinese who
    came to my garage sale offered me $5 for both bikes. This friend is a
    Chinese who has lived here for 20 years.

    A family requested help in getting subsidized childcare. They received ten
    weeks of free childcare, with a lot of team work from other agencies other
    than the Y. Then they requested subsidized counselling. Each hour of
    professional counselling costs $85 and after untold hours of phone calls
    during a two-week period, I got them the best rate at $10 per hour. This was
    not good enough, said the family. I tried harder and this time it was $5.
    This was still not good enough. Guess who else needs to put food on the
    table?

    Of course I will never forget this Chinese woman who, without prompting,
    offered a donation $10 after I helped her recover child support payments
    from the ex-husband. I returned her $5. I served her at my own time. She was
    a citizen and she spoke Cantonese only. No other agency can serve her.

    Another Chinese donated $10 to the Y after I helped him with his divorce
    application forms--not exactly settlement work. It took me four hours on the
    weekend doing work that should be done by a lawyer or a paralegal. The Y
    received a $10 donation. Thanks.

    A woman worked for years in Tim Hortons supporting her son and husband. She
    could not make ends meet and finally decided to return to China. Her parting
    gift to the Y was a $20 donation. To me, that $20 was worth 20 thousand
    dollars.

    This last story really breaks my heart. Besides working for the Y, I also do
    piece-work for the KW-Multicultural Centre, doing written translation and
    oral interpretation. Each document to be translated and notarized costs a
    minimum of $30. Sometimes, through my connections with employers and
    agencies, I can have an educational certificate translated but not notarized
    by the Multicultural Centre and would thus cost nothing to the student or
    job-seeker. The only cost is the Y's time. Of course, I would then not
    receive any payment through the Multicultural Centre for that piece of work.
    Recently, I translated four Chinese documents for a woman who lives in
    Guelph. I tried to convince her to translate just two, instead of four, to
    save on time and money. She insisted on all four documents. Wow, $120. After
    numerous phone calls to the agency that wanted the English version, I
    managed to convince the agency to let me do it through the Y rather than
    through the Multicultural Centre. This way the unemployed newcomer would not
    have to spend $120. The agency too had earlier failed to convince this woman
    to translate only two, not four documents, to save on her money. Wow, she
    insisted on spending $120. When I handed over the original documents to the
    newcomer, I explained how, through trust and connection, I managed to help
    her save $120. However, since she lives outside of Kitchener-Waterloo, she
    is not qualified for service by the KW-YMCA. So the time I spend working on
    her documents has to be counted as my own time, not the Y's time. I then
    requested a $2 donation to the KW-YMCA to help cover the cost of ink, paper
    and the fax service. Her reply: Wait until I get a job. The KW-YMCA got no
    $, the Multicultural Centre got no $. I lost my time. I still need to put
    food on the table for my four girls who have only one provider. This story
    has only one winner.

    In the last two years, I have sent out 30 letters of donation requests to
    clients whom I believed had benefitted the most from the Y and have the
    financial abiltiy to donate a few dollars. In all the follow-up phone calls,
    all I hear was that you never received those letters even though I
    personally put a 48-cent-stamp on each of those letters.

    In the next few months, I will be requesting donations from friends,
    relatives, community workers and private companies--and this takes TIME.
    This money will go towards helping you newcomers. If only each of you can
    donate a few dollars to the Y, I would be able to put that TIME back into
    helping you newcomers get more "free money".

    Please do not expect me to have dinner at your house.
    Please do not expect me to give you another three-month membership because
    you were too busy to use the first one.
    Please do not expect the Y to pay for your abortion because you are a
    visitor/student and can't afford $350. Didn't you just return from a visit
    to China to celebrate your grandpa's 60th birthday? { 枫下论坛
    rolia.net/forum }
    Please do not expect me to interpret on-site at your home when the
    air-conditioner service-man arrives.
    Please do not expect me to believe that a donation will be made when you get
    a job, when you have paid off your mortgage, when your children are finished
    with university, and when your funeral costs are covered.
    Please expect to be shocked and mad at this message.

    Each donation to the KW-YMCA will be recognized with a thank-you letter from
    the head office, including a 48-cent-stamp on it. On your envelope, write:
    attention to Yoke.



    This letter goes to all my Chinese clients. No names, gender inaccurate.

    Yoke KXXXXXX
    Settlement Counsellor
    Immigrant Settlement and Adaptation Program更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • U R SO GREAT!
      • Great! 投诉信写的有理,回信说明我们对这种新移民服务机构的看法与其原本的目的是一致的。反对投诉的人应该好好学习回信。
    • Well done!
    • 作者是个华人,收信人也都是华人.这种公开信的方式确实欠妥,但如果说是种族歧视措辞就有些过了.
      每天类似的言论在ROLIA都能见到.
      • 每天类似的言论在ROLIA都能见到=/=正确
      • Yoke kennedy是华人?少数民族?
        • 原文:Working with you all has also helped me get in touch with my Chinese roots. However, there is one part of my Chinese origin that causes me great embarrassment--take and no give,unless you are a family member.
          • my Chinese origin is 勿以善小而不爲,勿以恶小而爲之. Why is hers so different ?
    • Perfect english, you are my Canadian Idol ! :)
    • 信中提到的只索取不贡献的同胞们,应当继续努力,至少你们不是孤立的。谁敢说你,背后这样多的人帮你顶着呢。我要是那YORK女士,早走人了,何必在那受这种夹心气。
      • YORK女士认为中国人只索取不贡献的, 你也是其中之一, 除非你否认你是中国人
        • 你认为她的客户代表你,我没有意见。不要把我算进去。至于我是不是中国人,就不是你说了算的了。
          • 原文: I have also heard from the car salesperson, the insurance agents, the real estate brokers that the Chinese are the most difficult customers to close a deal. The Chinese expect a whole lot of service for free.
            你在不在其中 ?
            • 这句话是我对这个YORK非常反感的开始, 买房子慎重有什么不对呢? 这和个别人有关, 就套上个中国家庭。 这么说话不慎重的人我看该干啥就干啥的了。 而且她的信的最后强调捐款要写明要给她,觉得比较恶心。
              • 就事论事,我觉得她这段文字中的重点在最后一句话。再加上
                A Chinese man would very likely have an agent show him 50 houses and then when they together found the perfect house, the Chinese would make a secret deal with the seller so as to help the seller (who is now his best friend) avoid paying a commission to the agent.

                据我所知,确有这样的中国人,但愿她说的跟我所知道的是同一个人。
                • 不知道, 我所在的城市太小, 想看那么多也没得看。 我知道的一般最多10几套, 都觉得看晕了。
                • 她是以此为例证明她的论点:"The Chinese expect a whole lot of service for free". 一个中国人不代表CHINESE.
                  CLINTON 出桃色新闻是不是所有美国总统都出桃色新闻 ?
                  • 说实在的,这句话对不对大家心照不宣。她错就错在以GKX的形式写出来。
                    • 在其他人种中也有人有这种想法的, 你也不能说类似的话. 你要说,只能针对具体个人和事来说, 不能一竿子把所有的人都打进去.
              • 有些人的"非歧视论" 给我一种遇到驼鸟的感觉: 不承认, 就真的什么事都没有发生了吗?
        • 不过客观地说,你这是故意曲解蛋黄女士的原意。没有一个正常智力的人会认为“所有”中国人这样。她意思当然是中国人这样的比率比较高。
          • 要是有人把同性恋和爱兹病这么连起来,不知是不是惹同性恋们不满。反正又不是指全部。
      • 人家都是Idol了, 你何必在这扫兴呢?
        • 对呀,我又外行了。还是去看真的IDOL吧:)
          • 从你做起,从现在做起。榜样的力量是无穷的:把你过去捐助的情况贴出来让我们学习学习。
            • 才看到你回的贴。不用学习,又不是过组织生活。
              我没有用过YWCA的服务,所以没有给他们捐过。我们每年会捐一些给和医疗有关的CHARITY,不多的。有时也参加一些捐款的活动。同时,我也在作志愿工作。我知道有不少同胞作社区服务,不过也知道有同胞恐怕棺材钱存齐了,也不会拿一点出来的。个人选择,本没有什么不好。只是不要再去用不需要的服务。要不真有困难的人就得不到帮助。
              • Well Done. Just don't forget to tell others: Chinese also help people
      • 咳,我也觉得这种信能封住别人的嘴,却改变不了人心。
        • 歧视是很难被消灭的
          • 先弄清楚歧视和偏见的区别。前者违法,后者不违法。(discrimination, prejudice or bias)
            • 歧视都是源于偏见. 而且不违法的事就对了吗?
              • 要允许别人有偏见,如果有可能的话,努力去改变这种偏见。偏见来源于不了解或者了解得比较片面。
                • 如果只知道抗议却不知道反省,不让别人批评自己也不改正,就只能给人一种“又臭又硬”的感觉。
                  • 你认为的抗议的人都有所说的缺点?
                • 所以大家去努力了, 只是希望多给一些鼓励, 少一些泄气的话
        • 没有办法的。这也是我们选择这个国家的原因-每个人都可以Have their own voice,我们喜欢不喜欢,都要live with it :). 真要去看IDOL了,已经错过了3位选手了。
          • 我也支持大家积极表达自己的看法,这点,金字塔和3721做得很好。但是我们也可以持不同看法。btw, IDOL是什么?
            • It is CTV show Canadian Idol. I like Pyramid. He always speak his mind and he means it. No matter I agree with him or not, at least I respect him.
              I would not say the same to your friend though :). But I can live with it and still appreciate the difference.

              BTW, the idol just finished this week . If you like watching it, it is every Monday till the end of summer.
        • Exactly!简直是自取其辱
          • 麻木不仁
          • 怜其不幸怒其不争。在这里,你不争取就是你不要,不是你高尚!争取不是耻辱,自卑,和心虚是要不得的。更何况言论自由,她不喜欢的,她可以写公开信,树不喜欢的树可以写投诉信,何辱之有?
            • 中国人的形象不是靠你们这样的人“争”来。你们那么在乎中国人的形象,倒是应该去做些实事,而不是用种族歧视的棒子打人。另外,集体名词的属性并不要求个体都具备。如果人家说:加拿大比较冷
              你跳起来说,放X!温哥华就很暖和。
              这只能说你傻X,不是自取屈辱又是什么?
        • 造你的逻辑,诲淫诲盗也是允许的?因为你无法改变小偷偷窃的欲望所以禁止他宣传偷盗是没用的?
        • 封住嘴是第一步!美国现在还有kkk在活动,但是因为法律和民众压力,kkk无法形成势力。众所周知,听之任之会产生更多白人至上的暴民。所以法律才禁止煽动仇恨和歧视。
      • 唉,不说了。
    • Well Done !
    • good job
    • 哈哈, 上当了不是. 回信中根本就没提什么歧视, 只是说服务不该要回报, Yoke这样发信的方式不对. 一封信是不容易改变别人的心思的.
      • 当然不容易, 但我相信这封信至少可以让他们收敛一些, 不再发GKX
      • 关键不在于是否歧视。你说“他骂我”公诉人说他煽动民族仇恨,并不意味着你是错的。关键在于从不同的角度,双方都发现GKX的不妥,而且都表示了以后不希望再看到此类GKX,属于双赢的局面。继续纠缠是歧视还是方式不对似乎抬杠。
      • I am writing a letter to YMCA to confirm what Ms. Yoke's words: 99% of Chinese are just planning to take advantage of the free service and 100% selfish and mean ...
        I wish Ms. Yoke's career will not be affected by this shit.
    • 在民主国家,我们必须发出自己的声音来表达我们认为正确的诉求,没有人会可怜一个沉默的群体
    • 有种!CHINA是伟大光荣正确的, CHINESE是勤劳勇敢智慧的, 怎能受到这般歧视. 你算老几? 连洋人都没有对我们的美德说3道4. 你以为你是CHINESE就可以叫板? 我们博大精深的东东告诉我们, 就是秃子的头上长虱子你也不能说出来.
      • 你要说,只能针对具体个人和事来说, 不能一竿子把所有的人都打进去.
    • Good job.
    • About "Always take never give"
      Whether the instances from the YMCA settlement worker are true or not, I generally agree with the view that as a group we should step up our donation efforts, especially to organized courses. Last year, when filling a Unite Way donation form, I learnt I had the choice to designate the charity that will receive my fund. Since I perfer to give back to the Chinese community, and I don't know the charity number of any organizations that serves the Chinese community, I ask the quesition on Rolia. Guess what, not as many experts on this as on Digital camera, GPS, pocket PC, buying a house... In fact, I didn't get any response. That tells you something.

      The other thing I noticed is that we tend to be more willing to give to unfortunate individuals rather than an organization that can help a lot of people. This may have something to do with the environment we grew up in.